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Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.03 21:22:00 - [1] Now we all know that the source is quite available for eve. :) I'm quite sure that I read a dev say that you can basically decompile the client and get the source. Regardless; the point I'm making... any perceived threat of making the source code open has already failed. So realistically. What are the disadvantages for CCP to go open source and build in the typical sort of "launchpad" or trac way... in order to basically create the open source method of submitting bugs and having the community work with the CCP maintainers to build the better eve client. The advantages are very clear and easy to see. What are some of the disadvantages of going this way?: 1. Extra bandwidth. Many people are more likely to still download the binaries; AND get the source and compile/build as they go. 2. Possible extra work for programmers of needing to sift through bug reports and debugging information. Etcetc. 3. Working client so programmers get fired because the bugs get fixeD? 4. ??? 5. Profit? Clearly the advantages far outweigh those few disadvantages. Perhaps there are some disadvantages i dont see? ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.03 21:32:00 - [2] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain You would have to keep the Server/Client communications closed source or you're gonna have a **-ton of uncatchable macros running around. Not to mention giving nefarious FCs the ability to call targets before** landing on grid. I could go on, but I wont. This is stupid. The source code is already available bro. So any of this is already not valid. The question is to make it possible for people to submit patches to the maintainers basically. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.03 21:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Kuar Z'thain You would have to keep the Server/Client communications closed source or you're gonna have a **-ton of uncatchable macros running around. Not to mention giving nefarious FCs the ability to call targets before** landing on grid. I could go on, but I wont. This is stupid. The source code is already available bro. So any of this is already not valid. The question is to make it possible for people to submit patches to the maintainers basically. I think you are looking at this too much from a software standpoint. Look at it from a legal & copyright standpoint. Pretty sure the CCP legal department is currently bribing the forum mods to quietly eliminate this thread and erase all knowledge of this idea. Ok fair enough. The assertion that perhaps rogue eve online servers get reverse engineered and built. Still such things can be done now anyway. So again. Still not a big issue. As for copyright. Realistically... anyone can download the game client now and install it. They like distribution of it. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.03 22:41:00 - [4] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain Again, you're oversimplifying. If there are currently 'rogue servers' out there right now, they are running on Revelations II code. You're asking that they get shiny new updates to reverse-engineer every time Eve updates. Again, you're trolling. As I said in the first post. You can decompile python; afaik. I use the ccp dev who said it. Or how about someone saying the same thing... who is in your alliance. There is no "old revelations code" or anything. They can decompile each patch. Quote: So if we do get past all the issues currently presented, you like open source so much, which licensing model do you suggest? If you can't answer this with a what and why then you really need to stfu. The sky is the limit here. They can even write their own. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.03 22:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Khemul Zula Seriously. Look at it from a legal & copyright angle. Right now CCP owns the code. They can try to shutdown people running rogue servers. They can try to shutdown people copying their work. They can try to go after people who edit the game code without permission. Going open source and saying "here play with this all you want" sort of destroys all of that. Giving anyone who wants to run an EVE server the legal rights too is probably not something CCP wants to do. If they want this. They can write their copyright license to that effect. Or find one that works for them. The reality is that their software is patented by default. They have to expressly give freedom away. Which is the purpose of GPL is forced maximum freedom. Open source only means that the source is freely available. Lets just look at Creative Commons for example. You can get it such that there may not be any derivative works produced; and no commercial allowance. (by-nc-nd) That pretty much ends any rogue servers legally. Practically speaking... being open source and using the open source tools like launchpad/trac or whatever. Doesnt mean they have given away any new freedoms. Personally I see no reason to fear rogue servers and thusly going GPL would be no issue at all. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.04 03:14:00 - [6] Quote: Jason, I think we both have some misconceptions here. Do you only want the Client open for **ing around with? If this is so then I honestly have no problem people contributing to a CCP-reviewed code base. Yes only the client. The middleware stuff and server stuff obviously needs to stay quiet. Quote: You still have issues with people seeing behind the UI but this really does nothing that a standard macroer can't accomplish with over-the-counter software. There's multiple issues here. The x-fer protocols/encryption and everything is going to still be closed. Sure they could sniff it and reverse engineer it. But they can do this either way. As I've said. They already have the code for the client. So the stuff "behind the UI" is already out and about. Quote:** My issue is when you say "Make Eve open source" that means Eve. All of it. Server and Client side. As it has been pointed out, this is a very bad idea. No. Thought I was clear in saying just the client. Obviously we cant bugtest and debugg the server. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.08.04 03:34:00 - [7] Quote: However, all of this is a moot point as CCP has most likely required all of us to agree to a EULA which forbids us from doing any of the above. Also, they could claim that private servers bypass CCP's DRM, much like what Blizzard did to shut down bnetd. Although, CCP doesn't use CD-keys so they might have more difficulty doing this. Well they used the EULA to ban those people who did decompile eve back then. Im sure the eula does stop the rest. I havent really heard much in terms of why you wouldnt want to go open source tbh. Someone asked: Quote: After reading this thread, one question remains in my mind: Why? I see no valid point in making it open source, despite Jason saying "The advantages are very clear and easy to see". 1. If you have ever had to deal with the bug hunters and that craphole of crap. You are very much so encouraged not to contribute. 2. Legitimate bug reports get filtered for more information... so they dont move forward. Something trac or launchpad does is give the community the ability to read the bug and provide that information. See the bugs and thoroughly debug them. Goto the code and submit code as a patch. 3. The whole purpose of the bughunters kinda dies in this setup. The bug hunters role would essentially just live on as a godmode for singularity basically. 4. The eve community isnt made up of 12 year old little morons like WoW. Many, if not most, can program. Python is essentially a language you can learn in 10 minutes if you know the other languages. You just have to look up the syntax. Ofcoarse 10mins is exagerated because you can be a ccp programmer for 5 years and still not know how to program python. 5. Open source is a killer of a development method. In many places where the battle came down to open source vs closed source. Open source wins. I can go on and on.. but i really should goto sleep :( I really suggest this book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.

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